Re: God in all...

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: : jb, : I'm glad you're back. : : : >>>Bede Griffiths says, "The Church also belongs to this world of 'signs.' The doctrines and sacraments of the Church are human expressions or signs of the divine reality, which are likewise destined to pass away."<<< : : recall the Stendl-Rast treatment of the "mystical core of organized religion" and my take-off on same in "progressive catholics are gift"? how would you interpret this in the light of those writings? : I think the Church as we know it is passing away. I think our image of Church is undergoing a drastic change and will continue to undergo change in the future. I don't think : God or the Cosmic Christ will be contained : by our images. I think the old images are like the old wineskins. Sooner or later, they will have to burst. : In light of your writing, I see progressive : Catholics as a great gift because they : seem to be the people who are currently : most attuned to this change. I also think : they will be the present day "martyrs" who will be persecuted by their very brothers and sisters who find this idea offensive. However, I think : in years hence, they will be vindicated. : As for Bro. David, I agree that all religions start with someone who had a mystical experience : and, then, others try to organize it! However, : in the organizing they often miss the point. They : are trying to organize and systematize Love and that is sort of absurd as far as I'm concerned. : Aquinas said it best when he said that all he had written was like straw. : : >>>He goes on to say, "Christ also is the 'sacrament' of God. He is the sign of God's grace and salvation, of God's presence among men. This sign will also pass when the reality of the thing signified,is revealed. For as St. Paul describes it, 'Then shall the Son himself be subject to God, that God may be all and in all' (1 Corinthians 15:28). (Bede Griffiths, p. 75.): How do you interpret this?<<< : : so i am suggesting that Bede is certainly NOT saying that the bodily resurrected, human-divine Jesus will pass away but rather, because we will ALL be transformed, our experience of Reality with a capital "R" will "give way" to a new order : I wholeheartedly agree. As was mentioned elsewhere, we are all becoming the Christs. : The new order is happening now. It just is happening at different rates of growth. : : : our whole life and existence are made up of ongoing liminal experiences, of construction and deconstruction, as we pass from image to image and glory to glory, as we experience the rhythm of the apophatic and the kataphatic, as we go thru death and rebirth and all manner of Paschal mysteria : Beautiful john! The cycles of our lives! : : these deconstructions, for the Christian, don't mean annihilation but rather mean death giving way to new birth : Yes! : : the deaths of a human being and of the cosmos as we know it are profoundly cataclysmic, are major deconstuctions but they are not annihilations but rather are transformations and on a eschatological scale that we can hardly fathom : Yes, transformations, not death as we often think of it....... : : in this sense, i think Bede is talking about theological constructs, signs, symbols and metaphors "passing away" but certainly not the divine-human second person of the Trinity as a personhood-reality : : I think the sense in which he is talking about the divine-human second person of the Trinity : passing away is the sense in which we come to the full realization that we are are brothers and sisters of him. We can do these things and greater.......So our vantage point changes...and, thus, our perspective? Understand? : ........ : I'm enjoying this jb. There are areas in which we think a lot alike. You just do it in three syllable words! (teasing you) : Thanks! : april

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