Posted by Anne Ward on May 15, 1999 at 13:42:16:
In Reply to: Prayer and Holiness posted by johnboy on May 11, 1999 at 16:58:55:
jb: ah, prayer and holiness! and what determines holiness.
you wrote: "the Spirit blows where it will......especially as regards either the sanctity or destiny of any given soul. I find this very important in that it is dovetailed, to me, with the gospels' statement [and which you repeat] that we are not to judge. This can be so difficult for so often we feel as if *we* know what everyone is to be doing/acting/thinking/doing! As if God made us His personal 'keeper of the flame', so to speak.
but there is tremendous freedom in the gospel declaration that we are not to judge! This frees up ones time considerably, don't you think? Freed to worship, seek, and listen to our Lord rather than being more concerned about what *others* are doing! Plus it is freeing in that only God knows our sanctity or lack of! To me, that says what I have always believed regarding knowledge of our own state. It isn't a once saved, always saved view but more of one of being open to God and His workings each moment of every day. Not only are we free not to pass judgment on others, but free to pass judgment on ourselves [I think!]. I think of a saying I recently read: "Other peoples opinion of me is none of my business."
You spoke of the gifts of the Spirit...it seems prudent to be cautious regarding the gifts--as to has which ones. some are self-evident but i like to think of the fruits of the Spirit as being paramount! We can have the Gift of prophecy but have not love...what good is that? So, to me, all gifts should be considered from their fruits and especially that of love...which is part of kindness, patience, etc. and beautifully stated in I Cor. 13.
Hope you can clear this up for me. You wrote: " so, to make the point, all gifts of prayer are unmerited and to choose to embark on this or the other journey of prayer, discursive versus nondiscursive, is a decision which requires much discernment regarding all things both psychological and spiritual known to the director and directee."....well, that sure seems to say [if I understand it correctly, which I may not], that someone else or in collusion/discussion with someone else, one's prayer gift is to be decided. does this not retrain the movings and mysterious workings of the Holy Spirit? Of course, johnboy, I probably am way out of my water, so to speak. And that is probably very obvious!! This is pretty deep stuff for this ole country girl! But I do like to learn and try to understand
Found your comments that prayer methods and gifts may give some indication of sanctity or holiness to be quite true...we have no way of knowing, do we? I think methods are fine, but when held up as something like my method is preferable and more holy than yours sort of stinks! all goes to what the 'radical dependency on God' that you mentioned. and my method/way of prayer today may not be tomorrow's way or method, but my utter dependency upon God's mercy never changes!
Am going to 'chew' on your post and the next one on Grace for awhile. For some, like me, silence is preferable to vocal although I hang with the LOH as a beautiful obedient discipline.
thanks, johnboy, for alot of stuff to chew on!
blessings, and grace,
anne
p.s. i think I am out of my water here but hope not too far out!!!