Re: True Self, False Self. . . Bernadette Roberts, Part II

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: Dennis, : After further thought, I feel moved to add a few things to my initial response to you.... : : Dennis wrote: : : : : Do you really want to listen to someone off the cuff telling you that Bernadette Roberts is self serving? What does your heart say? Bernadette is so far beyond anything that has been published in the Christian contemplative literature that you will often run across people who are willing to tell you where it is at, when in truth they are simply talking from their experience and from the conditioned mind. If the speaker is not living from the heart, but the mind instead, then you need not take them seriously, since they don't have the direct experience of what Bernadette is talking about. : : I am thinking more about what you mean by "heart." : Do you mean intuition? Compassion? As I told you before, I don't agree with the assessment of Roberts as self-serving. However, I think I have : to put a tiny "plug" in here for the head as well as the heart. I think we need to have them work in a delicate dance in order to maintain our balance. I also think it is the conditioned mind that takes us to the place where the conditioning is disassembled....so, in that respect, the conditioned mind is important. : I have know Phil through correspondence for years. : That doesn't mean I agree with him on many or most things. Our experiences of the Divine are filtered through our individual consciousness so : we may come to very different conclusions about various subjects. Based on my experience, I can say that he, as a thinking type, does rely quite a bit on his mind....as I would guess all thinking types do. However,like Roberts, he has also shared a number of direct experiences in his books and writings. So, based on his sharing, I would guess that he, too, has experienced much of what Roberts is discussing. However, he processes it quite differently. : Our filters, like thinking, are what help us convey our experiences to the world...after we : come back from the mountain top. It's the heart and mind in tandum that enable us to share, in so far as is possible, the process. I do not mean to say that we do not have direct intutions of the Divine or Truth or trees or Another. I simply mean that ultimately we must process those intutions through our "filters" or how else could we even attempt to share them with anyone else? : Dennis wrote: : If you recognize that she is true to the contemplative experience in her personal description of it, then why doubt her? You will only come to know the truth of what she says by God's grace if you totally give yourself to the Divine. People of limited experience with rigid mind sets will attempt to keep their positions in tact because to do otherwise is threatening. But the mind and all of its entrenched beliefs have to be offered as a gift of your self to God. What remains is after you have fully inspected them and gave them as an offering is what is your truth. : Yes, Dennis, that is my subjective truth. However, I also believe that there is an objective Truth out there, too. I believe it is in the integration of my subjective truth with the objective truth that the overall process of Truth : begins... : : Dennis wrote: : The language you use and the beliefs you hold after they are offered are still taken from your life's experience. The heart, on the other hand, knows the truth directly without being dependent on the mind other than to communicate and describe what is given. Even then the descriptions often don't fully express the experience. This is obvious when you experience a tree directly versus trying to describe a tree verbally or in writing. You can never convey the actual experience. If this is true in describing a tree, then it is all the more difficult to describe something as intangible as the spiritual heart. In either case you have to experience it to really know what is being described. So don't get too dependent on others descriptions, find out for yourself by taking serious your total commitment to God. : Dennis, a few weeks ago there was a reading in the Liturgy from Jeremiah that began, 'Cursed is he who trusts in human beings......' I agree wholeheartedly. :) There are some things we learn along the way that are pretty much taught to us : by God and the process of Life. : Phil and his polysyllabic friend jb have reminded me of the importance of the mind as well as the heart in this process. : I hope this post has explained a little more of my : perspective of all this to you. : Thanks for your kind response to me. : Love, : Diana : : : Love, Dennis

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