quote:Originally posted by johnboy: Recent finance reports from the candidates for President revealed that Barack Obama paid $1,700 for a band called Double Funk Crunch to play in California and John McCain paid $1,600 for a group called the Mad Bavarian Brass Band to play in New Hampshire.
Ah, solid evidence of economic mismanagement! I’d say Obama likely got the better deal.
Besides, do we really want to outsource American musician jobs to mad Bavarians? They must have snuck across the border on a moonless night, past a tone-deaf border guard. This does not bode well...
I appreciate the depth (understatement!) you bring to these discussions – it just takes me a long time to go through all of these points. IMO, we are not really that far apart on key issues. I am not sure what to respond to, so I’ll follow up on the AmCon article on McCain.
I did see this article, and I think I understand where the writer is coming from on this, though I am not sure it was intended as parody. First of the title of the article smacks of the stuff you decry -
“The Madness of John McCain; A militarist suffering from acute narcissism and armed with the Bush Doctrine is not fit to be commander in chief.”
IMO, it seems that the author is mixing apples and oranges to point out that somehow McCain is inconsistent by voting against “redeploying” (since they were there already) Marines in Lebanon, but understanding that in Iraq, there is a lot more at stake regarding American interests (in all due respect to Pat Buchanan) this time around. And the quote that states the following is a bit of a stretch, to say the least:
quote: If McCain finally makes it to the White House, the U.S. will surely start new wars, and not just in the Middle East. With the world as his stage, the persona McCain has created—given visible expression by what Camille Paglia trenchantly described as “the over-intense eyes of Howard Hughes and the clenched, humorless jaw line of Nurse Diesel (from Mel Brooks’ Hitchcock parody, High Anxiety)”—will have every opportunity to act out his fantasies of soldierly greatness.
. They said the same sort of stuff about Reagan.
I agree that neither Obama nor McCain have a monopoly on virtue, or too many other things. And maybe I am guilty of relying too much on “feeling” at this point, but for me at this point, McCain, for better or worse, clearly has the edge in dealing with foreign policy issues that involve the military action. This is not to advocate military action or agree/disagree on Iraq.
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quote:By bolstering voters' sense of self-satisfaction, Obama has unleashed a wave of heady feelings of unity, purpose, and enthusiasm - but all for the man who makes them feel this way, not for any particular policies. No one, after all, is fainting at the thought of Obama's position on health insurance. Thus, nothing any opponent can say or do will likely get between Obama and his worshipers to undermine those feelings.
quote:Originally posted by Phil: JB, not that you haven't addressed some of these issues already, but . . . here's a list of the kinds of questions most conservatives (self included) have for Obama?
Perhaps YOU'd like to go through the mental exercise of arguing from Obama's perspective and provide the best answers and rejoinders that he could come up with using your own words? It does one's brain cells good, and beefs up one's arguments, to play devil's advocate with one's own positions every now and then. [At least that's my secret to staying young and fit ... ... as perhaps you've noticed.] . . .
OK, I'll take you up on it:
#1 . . .
#3 . . .
etc.
That's the problem: I don't really know. I know where McCain would stand on all of these (no one's going to ask him these questions, btw -- other pointed ones, I'm sure), but I'm not sure for Obama.
I wasn't expecting you to answer these -- only to point out that they're the kinds of questions Obama will eventually have to respond to and most likely in debate situations. They're good and important questions and he needs to answer them. Even when he does, however, I'll wonder what he'll really do. His resume' is so thin and his Senate career so short and undistinguished that mostly what we have to go on are his words and promises. That would rarely cut it for a CEO position in the business world. . .
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Phil: I wasn't expecting you to answer these -- only to point out that they're the kinds of questions Obama will eventually have to respond to and most likely in debate situations.
He's already addressed such stuff in debate situations, such as the driver's license question. And he did it well. I'm just not here to advocate on that level is all. It's not like you have "stumped the panel."
Don't you know it's gonna be alright-John Lennon And you will know that all manner of things shall be well-Julian of Norwich Posts: 2881 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Here are some questions for McCain advocates: Questions For John McCain. One can answer them here, but do e-mail your response to George Will, too: georgewill@washpost.com
Don't you know it's gonna be alright-John Lennon And you will know that all manner of things shall be well-Julian of Norwich Posts: 2881 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Phil: His resume' is so thin and his Senate career so short and undistinguished that mostly what we have to go on are his words and promises. That would rarely cut it for a CEO position in the business world. . .
Obama's inexperience is an obvious weakness, but not a fatal flaw as if that trait alone can be considered in isolation. See this counterpoint by David Ignatius. Having a zoology degree would rarely cut it for a CEO position in the banking world, but it happens.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright-John Lennon And you will know that all manner of things shall be well-Julian of Norwich Posts: 2881 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Obama's inexperience is an obvious weakness, but not a fatal flaw as if that trait alone can be considered in isolation. See this counterpoint by David Ignatius
A couple thoughts:
- Obama's inexperience is coupled with his naivete - that is the real issue!
- Ignatius's article is right up the same alley - China and Russia are post Cold War because of enlightened leaders? Pakistan, too? Are you kidding me?
quote: We are the last major nation to make the transition from Cold War thinking to something new. China and India are rising thanks to new leadership elites that understand how to succeed in global markets; Russia is about to elect a new president whose formative experiences came after the fall of the Soviet Union; Pakistan has just rebuffed its own durable Cold Warrior, Pervez Musharraf; even Fidel Castro, perhaps the iconic survivor of the Cold War, has decided to step down. Only in America could John McCain seriously campaign for leadership as a symbol of the past.
They recognize exactly what is going on in a supposedly uni-polar world, and would love Obama as POTUS.
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quote:Originally posted by johnboy: Having a zoology degree would rarely cut it for a CEO position in the banking world, but it happens.
Right, but that's because you had a good track record with financial institutions, having worked your way around in them for many years. It was your experience that won the confidence of the Board that hired you.
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by johnboy: Having a zoology degree would rarely cut it for a CEO position in the banking world, but it happens.
Right, but that's because you had a good track record with financial institutions, having worked your way around in them for many years. It was your experience that won the confidence of the Board that hired you.
Yep, five and one-half years. But I had other qualities that compensated for that, and there were a host of other criteria used to evaluate me with which I met, many reminiscent of the best of Obama, some recalling, perhaps, the best of McCain, some superficial to be sure, like my Robert Redford look-alikedness, most of which my deep humility prevents me from inventorying in public. And the person who gave me the greatest lift on my career path is known for having said: Being a CEO is the easiest job in the world, if you surround yourself with good people. Look what experience got us in the prosecution of the war in Iraq. I'm just saying it ain't make or break, especially once considering the issue is being rather facilely engaged at the cliche level, especially considering the history of the US presidency and the combination of factors that tended to matter most in both elections and the discharge of heavy responsibilities. Most governors don't have foreign policy decisions to make, but they have executive experience. Whoopteedoo.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright-John Lennon And you will know that all manner of things shall be well-Julian of Norwich Posts: 2881 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote: Originally posted by johnboy: Having a zoology degree would rarely cut it for a CEO position in the banking world, but it happens.
must be a trend:
SF Fed Board
quote: Mr. Myers is a founder and the president and CEO of Bridge Bank, N.A., a full-service professional business bank serving the needs of small and middle-market business and emerging technology companies. He is also a director, president and CEO of the bank holding company, Bridge Capital Holdings. Mr. Myers has 25 years of banking experience in the South San Francisco Bay/Silicon Valley area, all with independent community banks, and has held various executive management positions. Mr. Myers is a director with Western Independent Bankers and a member of the Silicon Valley/San Jose Chamber of Commerce. Mr. Myers has a degree in zoology from DePauw University and attended the Institute of Financial Services Management at the California State University, San Jose, and the Pacific Coast Banking School at the University of Washington, Seattle.
Just wondering ....is there any correlation between this "trend" and the current banking crisis? Posts: 417 | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
LOL. I know JB is taking a break (I think so, at least). He had good business experience in addition to the 5 yrs. in banking before he became a bank President.
Good to see Bush having a bit of fun. He seemed relaxed in the interview as well. No sign of the acrimony that was so obvious between he and McCain 8 yrs. ago.
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
As some might have always expected, the Democrats have, in their most electable year, put forth one of their least-electable candidates from the field that first set out. The GOP for it's part, and in spite of itself, almost, in their least electable year in awhile, have chosen from their field their most electable candidate.
The dynamic that will ensue, then, makes for a closely contested race, perhaps much like 2000 and 2004. Obama will come out of the nominating primariries and caucases with something of a bump or glow, which will give him an edge in the polls initially over McCain, but expect this horse race to be erratic, changing thru time and with circumstances.
Now, that's all the horse race commentary I feel like I can offer. The rest, I hope, will be on the substance of their policy differences and the people they begin to surround themselves with to run the country, cabinet, VP and other advisers.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright-John Lennon And you will know that all manner of things shall be well-Julian of Norwich Posts: 2881 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Yes, it should be quite a race, JB. I'm not sure Obama is one of the Democrats' "least-electable candidates," however. He'll have the solid backing of African Americans, the university crowd (professors and many young people), and the far Left, all of which should bring in 40% of the vote for him. Getting that extra 11% and from the right states for electoral votes will be difficult for him, however. Big Mac has his 40% locked in, too: conservatives (who don't like him, but who like Obama less), staunch Republicans, and many independents. Who will get the Hillary crowd -- those lower, middle-class Whites, and the Hispanics? My sense is that this is too close to call.
Every President elected in U.S. history has received a majority of White, Anglo male votes and I suspect McCain has a lock on this group. Question is, however, whether this demographic will be counterbalanced by the growing number of Hispanics? McCain has been a moderate on immigration issues for many years, so they like him. We shall see.
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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HeartPrayer
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quote:Originally posted by johnboy: Recent finance reports from the candidates for President revealed that Barack Obama paid $1,700 for a band called Double Funk Crunch to play in California and John McCain paid $1,600 for a group called the Mad Bavarian Brass Band to play in New Hampshire.
Well, all I can say is that an in-depth, comparative Jungian analysis of the symbolism here is long overdue.
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HeartPrayer
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Phil: He'll have the solid backing of African Americans, the university crowd (professors and many young people), and the far Left, all of which should bring in 40% of the vote for him.
Boy, that sure makes for interesting demographics. Are you sure about this:
African Americans + University professors and students + "Far Left" ----------------------------- = 40 % of American voters.
13.1 % of the population is black 5–10 % is "Far Left" (if I recall your figures)
...which means 16.9-21.9 % are professors or university students.
I don’t think that can possibly be correct, Phil. Demographics must look veeerrry different when viewed from your side of the pond.
posted
Oops, I forgot to include staunch Democrats -- people who will vote Dem no matter who the candidate is.
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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HeartPrayer
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quote:Originally posted by Phil: Oops, I forgot to include staunch Democrats -- people who will vote Dem no matter who the candidate is.
Shucks. I was hoping it would be a sure thing. This is one race to watch, one of the most interesting presidential elections in many years.
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Don't you know it's gonna be alright-John Lennon And you will know that all manner of things shall be well-Julian of Norwich Posts: 2881 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by HeartPrayer: Boy, that sure makes for interesting demographics.
Thing about it is --- those nationwide demographics are misleading. What will matter most are only ten, maybe twelve, so-called swing states and who can spend how much money in those states and get their voters in those states to show up on election day. Obama won't even contest West Va and Kentucky, for example.No question that black voter registration and turnout will be at historic highs, placing some southern states in play. Put Bill Richardson on the ticket and those Hispanic votes plus New Mexico, Colorado and other western states could come into play. Who knows? It's the Dems race to lose but they have been known to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory before. McCain is not going to come across well in head to head match-ups. He won't avoid gaffes but he better avoid a flare-up of temper. He'll look like Nixon vs Kennedy and will project a dour Bob Dole like demeanor not ameliorated by his too-frequent and terse use of "my friends." Obama may not be fully vetted vis a vis his "associates" problem. GOP 527 ads will look like a perpetual Hannity & Colmes segment and will play to all the people who live in the Fox News Cycle Bubble. And they won't get it that the only people who are buying that Karl Rove-ish assault are those who have been living in the same hermeneutical tent, watching the same nightly Karl-toons and have been drinking the same Karl-Aid since the Clinton-bashing years.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright-John Lennon And you will know that all manner of things shall be well-Julian of Norwich Posts: 2881 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Don't you know it's gonna be alright-John Lennon And you will know that all manner of things shall be well-Julian of Norwich Posts: 2881 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Don't you know it's gonna be alright-John Lennon And you will know that all manner of things shall be well-Julian of Norwich Posts: 2881 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Kansans are thinking our governor, Kathleen Sebelius, is a likely choice for VP. That way he could have a staunch supporter and a white woman on the ticket whose name is NOT Hillary Clinton.
----
Now to the issues, the main three being Iraq, immigration, and health insurance. I'll start by paraphrasing how I understand each candidate's position on Iraq by having them give a little speech to the troops:
Obama: "The invasion of Iraq should never have happened and if I had been in the Senate, I would never have voted for it. Never mind that fellow Democrats and friends like Kennedy and Kerry voted to authorize President Bush's use of force, I found the evidence presented by Colin Powell to the U.N. Security Council unconvincing, and the principles authorizing the invasion to be wrong. There is no noble purpose in this war and negligible implications for U.S. national security at stake in Iraq. Nevertheless, you all have performed heroically, even though this has been a huge waste of time, money, and precious human resources. I support you all, even though I don't believe in the cause for which you put your lives on the line daily. Consequently, I will bring you all home as soon as possible. What happens to Iraq after you leave is up to them; in fact, our leaving will motivate them to step up and take more responsibility for their future. If they fail to do so, we'll see where we go from there."
McCain: "Iraq is a primary front in the war on terror and it's necessary that we stay until such time that the Iraqi people can control their own security and they request that we leave. I supported the war because our intelligence and that of other countries indicated that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction, and because Saddam Hussein was a threat to stability in the Middle East. Furthermore, Saddam was a terrorism sympathizer and enabler, so I was concerned that he might be supplying WMD to groups like Al Qaeda. There are also important geopolitical considerations at stake. A democratic, Western-friendly Iraq, who is an ally in the war on terror, is a devastating blow to Al Qaeda and the militant Islamist movement. That said, I believe the period following the invasion was botched badly by the Bush administration, and I am on record for having called for more troops and a different approach. Things seem to be turning around there since the troop surge last year and a more grassroots approach to working with tribal leaders. It makes no sense to speak of pulling out now. I'm in it to win, and am confident that our continuing co-operation with the Iraqi government, military and people will eventually prevail over our enemies there."
----
As for me and my house, we're with McCain on this one.
[ June 05, 2008, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Phil ]
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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The phenomenon that I'm talking about is how many times some folks will see this or that "gotcha moment" or gaffe and then confidently proclaim that it will cost so and so the election, whether McCain or Obama, offering not an insightful sociologic or political analysis but, instead, a projection of their own wishful thinking. For example, Hannity amazed me in this way. He could countenance neither McCain nor Obama and predicted their demise over and over and over.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright-John Lennon And you will know that all manner of things shall be well-Julian of Norwich Posts: 2881 | Registered: Aug 2001
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