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Hello Phil, old and new members. Kristi here. It has been some time since I posted, almost a year. It has been a challenging time, to say the least.. as I learn to move more with my heart. I have been doing so much healing, so much learning.. the grace of all of which brings tears of gratitude to my eyes.
When I was in contact with you last year, Phil, I was moving through a very difficult time, flooded with confusion, and a hesitancy to embrace the aspects of kundalini and the impending spiritual unfoldment in my life. For your assistance and prayers, I am most grateful.
I have since been forced, necessarily so, into an early retirement from the Army. I have recently taken a job as a Supported Living Assistant working with developmentally disabled adults at Faith Village here in Olathe, KS. Being with and sending love to while learning from these ones is very balancing for me in the kundalini process and somehow seems so "right" for me at this point.
Early this year, I began seeing a reiki practitioner to assist with clearing the aspects of my wounding and balancing my energy body and with her I have been having wonderful results. I always feel the peace of Christ in my work with her.. it is as though the whole room fills with light. We use an approach of hypnotherapy to connect me with the issues within myself that I need to face while see balances my energy field, leading me through the meditation. At no point am I unconscious of what is transpiring (as I thought would be the case in hypnotherapy), so it more creates the space where I can consciously draw in the aspects of my psyche that I need to heal. My most blessed experience with her happened on the evening that I recalled my feelings as a very young child in this life, feeling alone and without God with this huge, compassionate, feeling heart that wanted only to love and understand the environment into which I had been born. In this space of feeling and emotion, I cried out to God, "Where are you? I need you?" Much as the child/spirit I then was needed to only never did. Sooo much emotion was released followed by an incredible opening of my heart center wherein if I had the eyes to see I am sure the whole room was filled with the light and love of God beaming through my heart. It is as though a sanctuary has been created here in my very being, a place of rest, healing and forgiveness that I may turn to time and again when the things of the world seem too much to bear, too much to understand. I simply move again and again to this space wherein I am assured of the love and the presence of Christ within.. and all things are made simpler for me.. carrying the weight of grief resultant from my feeling nature becomes easier, tolerable. Is this the Holy Spirit? I don’t know, I am sure only that I feel incredibly blessed in this.
I continue to seek to understand my feeling nature, the depth of the emotion/compassion that runs through me. I reflect to my moments as a child and my identification with Mother Mary and Jesus.. the impression that my heart was held in their hands, though I then had the reluctance to believe the reality of this as the illusions of this world weighed more heavily on me. Time and again I have the image of a sacred heart in my mind, in my spirit.. yet those ego aspects will speak to me saying, "Nah, Kristi, that is just something one as tender hearted as you needs to believe." But my heart speaks back, telling me of the degree of my compassion. I feel so often that I have carried so much more than my own weight in this world.. and it makes me consider the likelihood of inherited karma.. or, taking a reincarnationalist view, many lifetimes of chaos being cleared, as the things that I grieve and release for seem so much more than my own.. they seem supra-human, as do the cries that I endure. I have been told that such weeping is a state of grace. Some few months ago, I went on a Vision Quest in the wilderness of SE Utah to spend the time alone with myself, to accept the sacredness of the energy in my life.. and I did return with a certain knowing and assurance of the kundalini process.
My awakening came so fast and so strong and brought so many manifestations and spiritual implications that it left me feeling quite overwhelmed and small in comparison to the enormity of creation. And I am happy to report that I am now finding more space of acceptance, as I move through this period of integrating the psyche/mind and spirit of my being.
Kristi
.. now logging in as "Embrace" as I could not access my old account since changing my email address many months ago.
Posts: 9 | From: Olathe, KS | Registered: Aug 2002
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Thank you for your beautiful post, and I'm glad to hear you've found some help for balancing out the kundalini.
Your new moniker and also part of your message made me think of Psalm 131. On a monastic retreat I went on exactly a year ago, the wise old monk who served as my spiritual director referred me to this Psalm and told me to visualize (in my case) the Blessed Mother holding me, my soul, she did the baby Jesus, to symbolize the Embrace, caring, nurturing. I had been going on and on and on about my kundalini experience, the vastness of the universe, etc., energy stuff, etc. etc.
Anyway, that Psalm really put it in perspective for me. That universe held me as I held the universe, so to speak, but I was just a fraction and needed the arms of God, just as God's role was to move through me.
Blessings, Linda
Posts: 95 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Hi Kristi. It seems appropriate that a new name like Embrace be given you, for it sounds like a wonderful rebirth in love and healing has been happening for you. And it certainly seems as though the Reiki and hypnotherapy treatments have helped to facilitate this in some ways. I'm hoping that this will encourage others who have been struggling to consider those options.
quote:I feel so often that I have carried so much more than my own weight in this world.. and it makes me consider the likelihood of inherited karma.. or, taking a reincarnationalist view, many lifetimes of chaos being cleared, as the things that I grieve and release for seem so much more than my own.. they seem supra-human, as do the cries that I endure. I have been told that such weeping is a state of grace.
I know what you're talking about. In my own experience, I think I've been "done" with the issues of my personal unconscious for quite some time. While I have no sense of previous lives contributing to some of the struggles I still endure, I do have a sense that it is somehow contributing to cleaning up the karma of the race--maybe through the collective unconscious. I've also had for the longest time this sense that my primary vocation is not especially related to the kind of work I do, but is simply living with my spiritual/energy struggle, and attempting to walk with it daily in a loving manner. Somehow this kind of "hidden" vocation is being used by God to help the race. It sounds like you have a similar experience here.
I'm hoping we'll continue to hear more from you in the days ahead.
Shalom, Phil
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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w.c.
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Dear Embrace:
Thanks for being willing to share something so intimate over the internet. I'm ambivalent about that sort of thing, since it is strange to be in contact with people we never see while talking about such personal details that most in the church and our communities have made little place for. That's a lonely feeling for me, but is a state of our information-without contact world.
Your descriptions sound familiar to me. What I keep coming back to over and over again, hopefully with increasing lucidity, is that there is an aspect of ourselves, usually obscured, that already and always intimately knows God to some degree, a personal, relational sensing and intuiting of this inner life that is often overlooked both when talking about kundalini crisis and the more transcental nature of the Holy Spirit. It is like the knowing of a child that is receptive to grace in the most ordinary of ways, unfrustrated by its ulitmate mystery, as were the children who must have approached Jesus with so much more ease than any adult, willing to touch him and take in his gaze, wanting to know him and be known by him. Little wonder Jesus would want to stop and spend time with children willing to play with Him. To play with God . . . And it must have been a relief for Jesus to find in St. John the evangelist some of these qualities, as one who could be with Him as Friend without always flinching before His majesty and penetrating discernment at the same time. To laugh with Jesus must have been quite liberating. Surely these qualities of receptive knowing are still present, waiting to be trusted.
This aspect of the inner life isn't just something that opens in me during prayer or meditation or healings like your describing, but is a very simple sense of being known by my own inner life, which is yet still much smaller than God, yet connected in a vital, natural way. It isn't the same as being known beyond understanding by God in the grace of contemplation, but is a smaller intimate presence still much more than what I can know consciously in the moment. It is a feeling of being known from the inside by one's own sacred person, but larger than history and memory, etc. It is certainly something difficult for me to trust, perhaps because it fades from conscious awareness so quickly during childhood if its wondrous qualities are not mirrored as the human self emerges. I can still see this presence in my face and eyes, and can more easily see it in others, but it seems to want to know me as I am known. Just as God sees our goodness, cherishes us, this same capacity for receptivity can know us in a more inner dialogical sense. We can be known by our own goodness.
I was hearing something of this in your descriptions, hopefully not projecting on my part too much. But what you shared was moving and encouraging, since this intimate apprehension of the inner person seems to get lost when we focus so much on kundalini as simply a subtle/mechanical energy, or when we focus exclusively on God as so transcendent that being known by one's own soul tends to get lost in a cloud of unknowing type of surrender. When I let go of control, which requires grace itself, not only does God want me to know I'm loved, but there is this subconscious, soulful presence, apparently unmarred by traumas, that wants to know me as well.
What you've described is what I mean when I use the term "True Self." In my experience, the whole purpose of the kundalini process is to "engineer" the psycho-physiological matrix/infrastructure of one's being so that one can live in that state more or less continuously.
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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w.c.
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Phil:
Do you think this "True Self" which you describe is partly how God sees us? I say partly because God's knowing us is beyond our faculties, but there seems to be something essentially good, deliciously good, in our personhood that God cherishes, like a parent adoring her child, and so this being known by our own goodness may be partly seeing ourselves as we are seen by Him. This interior sense of goodness is so fluid with being known by God (but still not the same)that for me, at this point, the kundalini process seems quite different, much more gentle, as if given a larger space. And so I'm wondering if this goodness isn't related to the Holy Spirit, a created receptivity to that loving presence which resonates with It so that Its transcendent qualities can be known as immanent within our own nature.
Linda's descriptions of Sharon's transformation (NDE) contrasts with what is often missing with kundalini experiences not grounded in devotional awareness of a loving God, and, by virtue of this love a very real concrete sense of being His child and known by such a heart of goodness in ourselves which you are calling the "True Self."
I don't mean to imply that this goodness of heart exists in some radically pure state, but is so much a part of the unconditional loving nature of God, in whom we live and move and have our being, that it can coexist with the many estranged parts of our psyche, with the archetypal/kundalini dimension having at its base a longing to connect with that state of peace, as in St. Paul's comment that all of nature groans in expectancy for the revelation of the sons of God, perhaps what Linda's Sharon is refering to as the often painful process, individually and globally, of total purification.
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w.c., yes, yes, and yes, to most of your inquiries.
I consider the True Self not only a knowing, but a knowing-as-one-is-known, reminiscent of Paul's words in 1 Cor. 13. This is really what the Beatific Vision is: to know and love with God's own knowing and loving, and so far as I can tell, there's absolutely no reason why this cannot begin to be experienced in this very life--at least partially so. And so I'm not referring to some kind of impersonal cosmic consciousness, here, but something much more personal and subjective. There is a very definite sense that the one who is looking out of these eyes in the True Self experience is imbued with God's very Awareness, which is loving and cherishing of the creature in and through which God has come to dwell.
There are parallels between this thread and the one on the Christian Spirituality Issues forum on the God-dimension of experience. Readers of this one might want to check that other one out as well.
Kristi, if you are still checking in, what do you think of the responses given so far?
Phil
[ September 03, 2002, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Phil ]
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote: We love God with His own love; awareness of it deifies us.
by Eckhart
I have often used Thomas Merton's distinctions between immanent and transcendent, apophatic and kataphatic, existential and theological, impersonal and personal. At the same time, there is another of Merton's distinctions, which is important in understanding transformational processes, and that is the distinction between the person and the individual ego. I will stop here for I see I have almost cross-posted with Phil and will add nothing different!
Don't you know it's gonna be alright-John Lennon And you will know that all manner of things shall be well-Julian of Norwich Posts: 2881 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Kristi - on a personal note, your sharing was as beautiful as it was powerful. It seems to touch upon a recurrent theme, to see ourselves as God see us and is an wondrous experience, which is gifted both in the depths of mystical contemplation and in the simple imaginative exercises of Ignatius. It is an ego shattering experience, in its fatherly fulsomeness, a soft abiding in love's bosom, in its motherly gentleness. All spiritual roads seem to lead to it, even the simple exercise a now-deceased priest friend once suggested: "Find a picture of yourself from between the years of five and eight years old and put it on the bathroom mirror, where you will see it daily. As you look at that child, know that that is the you that God sees always."
Of course, what he meant was that that particular conjuring of our self-image was perhaps closest to capturing the innocence and trust and carefreeness of our truest self. Eventually, we abandon, or rather they seem to vanish, even these pale notions, whether of a simple beloved child or of a deeply intimate spousal mysticism, whether in Buddhist sunyata or Christian kenosis.
Once you have seen yourself, truly, as God sees you, paradoxically, you now see others as God sees them and experience a radical solidarity from which a compassion ensues, likely carrying so much more than your own weight in this world, likely bearing so much more love than to which a mere creature could aspire.
Again, paradoxically, our knowledge of God, and of others, is intertwined with a knowledge of our true self in its utter dependence, a radical neediness, which corresponds to God's constant and saving vision of us. We cannot serve the world or others or God without this knowledge of self, for without this knowledge of self, gifted in solitude and silence and awareness and love in the now moment, we do not even begin to know who God is or who others are and the world we see is but an illusion.
His vision is constant, meaning His gaze is what holds us in existence, an existence we are receiving as radical gift each moment, that is His immanence. His vision is saving, meaning His gaze holds not just our ground and source and support but also our destiny, in an existence in process toward an eschatological realization of His already-accomplished victory over sin, suffering, pain and death, that is His transcendence. When His vision becomes ours, we experience His very passion and death and foretastes of our own resurrections and assumptions, much more than we can bear.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright-John Lennon And you will know that all manner of things shall be well-Julian of Norwich Posts: 2881 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Phil, I am delighted with the responses.. beloved warmth noted swirling gently in the tummy here, with heart radiant. Everything is quite synonymous with my feelings and indications.
Linda, you said you were told to visualize the Blessed Mother holding you, your soul as she did the baby Jesus to symboloze the nurturing embrace... I came to the point of realizing that I were afraid of this great unknown, of accepting this awesome manisfestation in my life and that I absoultely could not do this without the assurance of God's love in my life. In this crying out, the comfort has come. I have had no visual indications or projections of the source of this embracing presence.. but know intuitively that this is the very love of God and of self. I really like how you summed it up by saying that the universe held you as you held the universe.. that we are but a fraction and God's role is to move through us. As such, I see my role as to allow this embrace of love to permeate all aspects and areas of my life. Not suprisingly, I have found that it is when I do not allow this love to be in me, move through me, that difficulties are created. I simply need to always remember that I am love and allow the openness of heart that it may be filled in me and through me. Granted, as I move about each day, now feeling as though I am learning to live and walk for the first time, it is not always easy ..as there still remains the old ways of being to let go of. Each pass, I am assured, is a step forward, into the new and out of the old. And my writing here brings to mind two things. They are, (1): how the kundalini process sheds new/much more meaningful light on the words from Jesus of being "born again." I recall how I used to contemplate these words as a teenager and the feeling present then that this were something more/deeper than merely donning a new psychological perspective and approach in one's life. I knew that these words which he spoke told of a profound spiritual, inner transformation of one's being, as a very part of God.. of being born of the very spirit of God. And (2): that is the witholding of love in man that causes suffering, that it is the witholding of love that causes the separation of man.
Phil, the name was indirectly given me by one of my guides on my vision quest. I went so completely open hearted asking/praying that I be born to a new way of being.. prepared to begin letting go so that God could move through me. And in my sharing with my fellow questers and guides came a portrayal of one fully embracing the pain of life she has known so intimately so that it could become healer and teacher to her. It was a word I heard over and over again in those who mirrored my story.. and there came the knowing inside that this name was the gift given me on my journey, the guidance I was to follow.
As for the feeling that one's walk in this life is to help the race, I couldn't agree more. I have had such feelings since I was a young child, but couldn't quite understand how or why I would feel such an agenda. As I got older, I chocked it up to magical thinking, not knowing how ever I could do something like this. While I know that I am yet clearing my own issues as well, I do also have the sense that very much of what I am doing is also clearing many issues collected (and continuing to be collected) from outside of my own individual experience as well. Hindsight being 20/20, I have very strong spiritual indications from my personal history that this is so.
w.c.,
You are welcome. Referrent to my response to Linda above, concerning my belief that it is the love we withold that causes suffering in the world, makes me more than willing to share the space of my heart quite freely. I believe that only in doing this will we help others to see and know that it is safe to do so as well.. in this, we can help others to open up their hearts. It is no matter to me that I do not know you "personally," cannot see you physically.. as, for me, we are none so different, really. And, for me, lonliness is created when I do not reach out and share openly and lovingly. You were not projecting too much in your post. I use the same terminology as does Phil (True Self, sometimes I say authentic self) in describing this sense of being known by one's self, being known by God. This is something I have felt/sensed all of my life, however, in earlier days, it was much more remote, more fleeting for me.. couldn't hold on to it for long. This space of self is opening up more fully now.
Johnboy, you wrote, "Find a picture of yourself from between the years of five and eight years old and put it on the bathroom mirror, where you will see it daily. As you look at that child, know that that is the you that God sees always." These words made me smile largely inside... I needn't paste any picture on the bathroom mirror as she lives in my heart and in the eye of my spirit quite clearly. Several months ago, when in a deep struggle with some issues, she came to me (that child-self, if you will) energetically and in a vision. It was to find again that space of being that is child-like in trust, faith and innocence.. eyes bright, heart pure and open.. unfettered by the many distractabilities of the world, simple and sure of her own beingness as a child of God. And, yes, the ability to know one's self in this manner, does stretch to all others.
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This section of the discussion board has so much to generate a response that I almost don't know where to begin or *if* to begin. I would like to do a few other things today .
Anyway, I felt the idea of keeping a picture of oneself at a young age to be very sweet (providing that nothing unfortunate happened to one at that age). It reminded me of taking a child to school for the first day. One may grow to have a different relationship with that child as time goes by, but the moment is still in one's heart.
Meanwhile, since I believe God has known me for all eternity and will continue to know me for all eternity, I'm just going to look at the image in the mirror.
posted
My search for the answers to Kundalini imbalance and treatment has yielded a little more reliable information from The Divine Life Society. For the benefit of all, I have added the information on the thread I opened putting together my contribution on this topic: 'Kundalini Imbalance - A non-Kundalini Approach to Healing'.
-------------------- God has only one instrument to teach me with - my life as it is. I'm patient with myself because God is not finished with me yet. Priya Posts: 158 | Registered: Feb 2002
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So good to hear from you again, priya! And thanks for those references.
shanti, I think you will find this particular forum a little different from some of the others. Working with people who struggle with the kundalini process and other forms of spiritual emergence has been a priority with me for years. Because this isn't always directly related to Christian spirituality, I set up a separate forum for the discussions.
Kristi/Embrace (do you have a preference), there is a lightness, peace, and joy in your sharing, which signifies some good guidance you are receiving. I'm wondering if you'd mind sharing what your attitude is toward the guides you've encountered. Do you feel free to disagree with them if you sense they suggest something that might not be good for you? Or is there with you an implicit trust that they would do no such thing. I make this inquiry to try to get a sense of how you experience your freedom in this context of extraordinary guidance.
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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Phil.. this is a good question to be asking me, one I have considered before and continue to. As the ability to trust was an issue resultant from my early wounding in life, I find it continues to be as I move through both the manifest and unmanifest world. There has without a doubt during the course of my walk with the kundalni been a sensing of influence(s) that did not have my best interest at heart.. and it seems these are fed by my fear of the unknown. Since a child I have had a fear, if you will, of the possibility of following the wrong guidance, of following the wrong path to the truth. "God," I used to pray, "where are you, what is the truth and where is my safety?" Needless to say, these same feelings came back with my awakening in a big way. I experienced alot of intense fear and I look at these experiences, though I did not at all like them, as having been neccessary for me to clear these feelings and learn to find my own space. I find that when I am most centered in the Spirit of Love, all things are easier, are clearer.. I am clearest. Still, moments of uncertainty/struggle come, and I find that whatever the thoughts or feelings are that are in my midst, I do best to own them, regardless of from where I perceive they may have originated.. that there must have been something within the energy of myself that attracted them.. that by not staying single and focused in love, I have created the space to allow these influences in.. or,perhaps that it is the love of my spirit that attracted them in the first place. One of the things I have struggled with is walking in this space of moving between the duality of the manifest and unmanifest world. Time and again, I have asked, "why can't I just stay centered in love all of the time and not have to deal with these lesser feelings?" I move between days of darkness and confusion and ones of peace, love and joy.. feeling often like I am performing cleansings larger than my own human self. Undoubtedly, I question too, is that merely aggrandizing to my ego? Or is this precisely what is happening. Even when I reflect spiritually on the karma of my own family, there seems to come an assurance that I specifically chose this life so that I may help to clear the human illnesses found there and on a larger scale. Seem to have wondered a bit away from your question of my feeling about the guidance being received. Immediately after my awakening, there abided with me (and still does) the presence of one whom bears a medicinal scent. Initially, this presence was constant and very undeniable. Right away, I recognized it from experiences I had during my sleep state as a child/teenager (some of these experiences, I shared with you earlier). I used to awaken in the evening, noting a feeling of what I described as an incredible expansion of my spirit.. and always present was this scent with me. I never then questioned these experiences and did not know what to make of them.. they did preceed the greater energetics that came in those earlier days. This presence seems to abide with me in a silent type of manner, always taking me back to myself, guiding me to the light within, always reminding me of my true self, my own divinity as a part of God. However, as my subconscious issues began tumbling forcefully forward, I found I could trust none but myself, at first, and soon none but God (and ofcourse went through the confusion of beginning to define really for the first time who and what God was to me.. the times of having to let go of that judgmental God my early experience with religion caused me to believe in). Additionally, after my heart and crown chakra were opened in the early stages of my awakening, when the deep cries began coming forward, I felt as though I was held in the most loving arms of spirit.. just pure love and comfort that abided with me saying, assuring me, that it was okay to begin letting go of all of the intense emotion that I had collected over the years. But the day came when these feelings of comfort and reassurance left.. and I have to consider that this were neccessary so that I could begin to find my own deep love of self and God. Today, when doubt enters I am reminded of the same words that kept sounding again and again in my mind as I moved through what have been my darkest nights, and those were/are the words "negative ego." Which to me meant that whatever I focused on would be.. and that love would overcome all of it. To answer your question is kind of hard for me.. as the biggest influence I feel is one of a need to follow the path of the heart, the path of love, of compassion. I believe it is the Spirit of love that guides me in this manner.. can we call this extraordinary guidance? As I am faced with unsettling perceptions, feelings and emotions.. it is to love that I must go and this is where the freedom is that I accept. Does that answer your question? Am sounding out loud for myself here as well. I am glad you have asked this question, as there are times when I feel as though there is that present which would have me be other than love.. and I ask from where and why does this chunk of crap (excuse the french) come? Those are very trying moments for me, Phil. Call me "Embrace," as it serves as a reminder to me to embrace all things in/with love.
Posts: 9 | From: Olathe, KS | Registered: Aug 2002
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Your detailed and thoughtful response does help to illustrate the kinds of influences you're dealing with, Embrace. One thought that comes to mind is that even Jesus, who was without sin, negative Ego, or a damaged unconscious, experienced "false guides" from evil spirits trying to detract him from his true mission. Some powers of darkness inhere from our own brokenness and sinfulness, but others could very well be disembodied wicked humans, or subtle beings antagonistic to the reign of God. I have no doubts concerning the existence of such entities, nor that their guidance can sometimes seem like that of a "good spirit."
It sounds like you have a sound intuition concerning these guides--which are friendly, which are not. One thing I've noted is that Jesus supplemented this kind of discernment with Scripture; even he, with his sure intuition, augmented his judgments using the "objective" standards which Scripture holds forth. Some might also consider Christian doctrine as a further amplification of these principles. In my own life, I am willing to seriously consider guidance, whether explicit or obscure, which does not conflict with Scripture or Church teaching. But as long as one is interacting with other beings at the level of thought or emotion, there is room for delusion. What works best for me is to surrender myself to God beyond all thoughts, and, awakening from that Silence, to trust in the intentions and dreams which emerge from that contemplative state. It sounds like you've had similar experiences.
Perhaps you and/or others would like to say more about this issue of guidance, which can be very helpful, so long as one remains free and discerning.
[ September 08, 2002, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Phil ]
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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Thank you for your sharing Phil, and I sure would like to share more. To date, I have walked my path mostly alone as I had a feeling of not knowing whose words/guidance to trust. Though I recognized my lack of trust as resultant from my wounding as a child and did not like it as I saw that it kept me from moving forward in love in earlier days, it also seems to have been as a gift to me in these later days of my life. Seeing that there are many who are only too quick to lead one down this path or that, I questioned every one of them inside my being, praying time and again for the guidance of God. Reminds me of a native american saying I recently became familiar with that says, when searching for a vision, "if a bear comes to visit you, send him away.. if a cougar comes to visit you, send him away, etc. etc.. and hold out for God. Your mention that some powers of darkness inhere from our own brokenness and sinfulness and reference of thoughts and emotions that enter our stream of consciousness and feeling body, is something that has become quite apparent to me. I have memory of having felt quite innocent and pure as a child.. and in wondering in these later days, "where did that go, where did these lesser feelings come from and why," I postulated, precisely as you are saying, that they are inhered from the world, from our environment. I feel quite blessed in that these feelings never won over on me as a child, and that I was able to maintain a steadfast inner search for the love of God that I knew existed. But I am equally aware that I did contain many ill feelings resultant from my environment.. only that I had the strength to not act from them which could have caused me to lead a lesser path in life. From where does a child receive such a blessing? How is it that one who grows admisdt violence, incest, abuse of power, physical and spiritual abuse maintain an eye and heart for love? I feel that I have been quite blessed in this, that God has cared deeply for me over the years. Ok, I realize I have just emotionalised this.. but it is this emotion which has so guided me down the right path in my life.. which has kept me holding out for God. To get back on track with sharing on the various forms of guidance/impressions being received... Some short time after my brow chakra was opened, there came a piercing sensation there, after which I began reliving my childhood on an emotional level.. and I must admit that much of the feelings that began coming in seemed much greater than what I could say were my own. When I began talking about the things in my family that had been kept secret for so many years, there welled within me a deep sense of betrayal that produced a great amount of fear for having brought these things out into the light. Where oh where did this come from, I had to ask. Sure felt much more, energetically, that my own stuff. It brought me to visions of my family, seeing and feeling the emotional exuding that were present within the body of my family for so many years. So many moments of those years began flashing before my eyes.. and I were feeling great confusion. I felt like I were dealing with a monster of emotional energy.. the rage, the anger, sadness, fear, deep hurt, pain, sadness.. all the things born of spiritual abuse. Things got ugly real fast. I entered a period where I felt as though my crown and heart chakras were on fire, blown wide open with all sorts of crap blazing through me. I had been in a state of bliss, love, accepting openheartedness for about three months prior to this time and I could not quite fathom for where all this had come. Slowly, but surely, I strengthened my will via prayer knowing that God would deliver me, all the while spilling out powerfully deep cries that felt spiritually sickening to me. Shortly before this time, I had experienced a gut curdling, tweezing sensation in the area of my solar plexus, feeling a need to vomit in a spiritual sense. I can't help but believe this were resultant from the workings of the guide who bears the medicinal scent. That I were being moved into a deep healing. So much of my early process seemed directed by a force from outside of myself. All of the stages of my awakening came, almost as if on cue, when reading and studying (mostly) Christian based spiritual material. During the ensuing process many thoughts and fears raced through my mind and I experienced wild rushes of adrenalized energy running through my body. Being around and going near my parents brought up monstrous feelings within me. And though I did not want to entertain the idea that these were born from outside of myself, from the ethereal realms, I am sure some of it was quite so. Had a degree of possession occurred? I think so. I was on the downside of this when I began communicating with you last year. Those were some dark nights I do not wish to revisit. I felt as though I were battling some powerful archetypes. I recall how when I would read the bible in those days that there were present within me a feeling of fear and unworthiness. I felt so totally isolated and separated from God, yet I wanted so much to know His love, to be assured of His love. This caused cries of deep longing within me. What were this spirit that I were dealing with? It has felt like a psychic structure/formation from which I needed to break through. Surely one born in those that experience the same sort of life circumstance that I did. In short, I too am convinced that there are spirits of emotional energy structure, if you will, that permeate our world, are attracted too and feed on those whose experience resonates their qualities.. all created from the dilemna of man's separation from God, from wholeness through the years. I am very aware of these, can see/feel them in others everywhere I go. I find it most important to simply maintain of state of love in all my affairs. And still, there comes many times when I feel a need to release to God what comes inside of me. So, yes, time and again, I am led into the contemplation, the space of my heart where I turn it over to God.. and always find the assurance, the vision, to continue on my path. The struggle that I still have is staying my heart on love at all moments.. this is most relfected when I find that I am operating from my wounding in life and it allows the lesser emotions to come through. But I also believe it is necessary to continue clearing whatever residues are there.. that God walks with me always. It seems to me to be a path of learning to walk in harmony, in balance, in love.. with the love of God as my guide - where one learns to no longer cast judgments and create/experience pain and disharmony via their projections, but staying their heart always on God. Reminds me of a passage from the New Testament where Jesus said that "If thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be filled with light." A neccessary process, I think, for one now learning to live "not of this world," but to use their discernment in bringing the separation of ego in alignment with our true self..
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What strikes me about your story, Embrace, is how real healing can and does take place for those who are open to being cleansed. Would that the woundings of our lives (and perhaps of the universe) could be dispelled in one fell swoop, but there's something about living through the cleansing which enables us to be born anew, and to avoid falling into the same mistakes and sins again.
It's not always easy to tell if a guide is really an externalization of our own "stuff," or a real entity. The beauty of surrendering this to the care of Christ and His Spirit is that we don't really need to know that, for sure. In either case, our consciously inviting Him to be our guide and healer will suffice. This is not to discount in any way the assistance we might receive from human agents of healing--only that it's very important to entrust the rebirthing process and formation of the soul to Jesus, and no other. It sounds like you've come to this appreciation yourself, and that some very good things are happening for you.
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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Oh how many time I have wondered Phil, "Is what I am feeling my own stuff?" and did and continue to give this away to God. Often when I have tried to understand from where some issues come, I only made it harder for myself.. as questioning and doubt seems only to breed more of the same.
I have received much in my sharing here.. looking refelctively at my own posts coupled with the insights that came as a result of responses from all of you.
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Embrace, one of the things I've come to accept is that I don't even need to know where the "stuff" that's passing through is coming from. If it's a cleansing of my own personal unconscious, so be it; if a more universal, cosmic kind of thing and I'm being used as a vacuum cleaner, even better! It all works unto personal and universal transformation, and in my faith-understanding, I view this as a means by which Christ is saving the world. Maybe this isn't so, in which case I'll simply state that I prefer living with my illusions on this one.
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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Serious about reliable information on Kundalini manifestations and its treatment? They believe in and practise universal love and selfless service, so go to:
I'm putting this question/issue to you both, but others may have insights to share as well.
Somewhat off the beaten path (except perhaps for Linda!), I've found some benefit in Vedic astrology. Without describing myself at all to these astrologers (all three were very close in their descriptions), these readings have been quite accurate in helping me understand pain/burdens I carry as aspects of a larger life pattern/purpose (aka, karma, with the issue of reincarnation not a theological problem for me).
Currently I'm treading some pretty fierce inner/archetypal terrain (not made any easier by unemployment), mainly to do with the second chakra (deep abandonment despair from infancy and childhood mixed up with deep longings for love that can very easily include intense sexual fantasy as failed attempts at self-soothing). Well, if that hasn't got you running for cover, I'll continue . . .
One of the astrologers is telling me that the next year will involve much of the same struggle, and is suggesting a mantra related to the current astrological pattern. The mantra is given, as you may know, to aid the movement of energy related to a particular planet's influence. Each planet governs a particular chakra (not counting Neptune, Uranus and Pluto which figure more indirectly in the Vedic system). I can see the astrologer's point in using sound in some way (since it's a second house issue, which relates to the throat and voice), but am hestitant in taking on a Sanskrit mantra due to fear of further kundalini crisis.
I know the general precautionary advice given at Shalom around these East/West issues, which is pretty much consistent with my experience. Perhaps just a devotional phrase that embodies personal meaning would help, but I don't want to prematurely dismiss the Vedic counsel being given. The Focusing process helps with these archetypal quagmires, but is better with a listening partner, which I currently don't have. Techniques are o.k. as long as they have a larger devotional context. Without the devotional context I usually run into trouble with overstimulation of K. One thought is to use the Sanskrit mantra while focusing on Jesus, which is a natural easy focus, but this could be like adding kerosine to rocket fuel. And the last thing I want to do is make more of a mess out of my second chakra; listening to it from within helps as long as my sense of unbiased presence is deep and strong enough not to react to what arises, which is not always the case.
I'm open to any suggestions, anecdotes . . . hell, I'll even take a joke.
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I got hooked on astrology more than ten years ago, know so much about it that friends still call and email to ask me to tell what the stars are doing, pass on the birthdate of a potential mate to see if the stars match, etc. I still read astro daily reports like the weather report and did also have a Vedic chart done. And yes, I've found the information valuable on lots of levels, and in fact, my chart even confirmed when the kundalini went off (an 8th house Uranus transit as part of the explanation for anyone who is interested.)
But, and here's the big BUT, here's a spiritual insight I got during a long and silent retreat at Intercessors of the Lamb this year, a Catholic convent renowned for expertise in spiritual warfare. I had a terrific nun as my spiritual director and prayed and journaled via biblical passages (and was prayed for and over by this amazing gracefilled group of hermits.) Astrology, as you may know, is labelled the keys to the soul. I think that's wrong now. The time, date, location of your birth may in fact have all kinds of significance in terms of what you come in with, but Jesus and the Holy Spirit promise much more, much beyond all of it. I know from my own chart and from knowing others deeply involved in astrology, that things that were supposed to happen according to the transits (or even various interpretations) never did for any number of reasons. I think the Holy Spirit intervenes in our lives if we give it the choice, heals, protects us and our souls. Astrology may provide a chart and some understanding, but Jesus lifts us out of all of it. I found relevant biblical passages that brought me to this realization, the notes of which I can't find as I write this, but the conclusion I came to is following astrology is like putting on a pair of old boots and treading down the same (energy) pathways, making the path deeper and deeper. Jesus, the Holy Spirit, lifts our being (mind body spirit here) out of those treaded ways and helps us create a life new in Christ. It was an astounding revelation to me (perhaps because I have a lousey chart) and has held true in months since. I also recommend looking at City of God by St. Augustine. He has some great insights into the shortcomings of astrology, as the language of the ancient pagan gods. (or in today's lingo, the "frequency" or vibe of those energies.
WC, please don't give more authority to what any astrologer tells you about what's coming up in your life in a chart interpretation over how that can be changed by your belief in Christ and a spiritual practice of praying, Eucharist and fasting, among other disciplines. Nothing is stronger medecine, trust me, for overcoming any obstacles you're facing, on any level, including an impaired K.
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Linda:
I figured you'd have something to share. Much agreement with the transcendental affects of grace and the limits of astrology; however, from a psychological point-of-view I found the readings strangely accurate re: details of my life history. It is simply a means to an end, not a last word on anything, although the 8th House predominance speaks clearly to me about the particular pattern of suffering which is so consistent with the horrors of my childhood.
The key in prayer for me is to be as simple as possible, which often escapes my best intentions. It is as though simplicity itself is a gift, or quite a vast undoing so that God can be received in the heart. I doubt I'll utilize the Sanskrit mantram, as intuition suggests otherwise. Last night I spent about 3 hrs in prayer, which was very intimate and simple. The K. loves the devotional relationship, and usually remains smooth in response, although a day or two later that energetic response can bring upon the unloading of the unconscious that Keating speaks of.
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Just to note that I'm not dismissive of astrology as an analysis tool as far as helping to define what we come in with and the impact of transits we may be wrestling with. It can be scarily accurate. (Ever read up on what astrology had to say about 9-11?) In fact, after years of therapy in my 20s, it took getting my chart done at the age of 29 (also significant) for me to really understand my mother as the female archetype in my life. She was a blur up to then (understandably) and to this day, the astrological interpretation, does, indeed hold true. The "karmic" elements of astrology don't disturb me either and even support the biblical analysis that God knew us before we were made, and we may be here to work out that separation as a result.
But the predictive aspects of astrology can be disturbing, I think, particulary as one is trying to heal an impaired K since it can allow us to cling to more negativity that we might otherwise dismiss, or not even hold in our thoughtforms. And I also have to add, that one charisma I've had since childhood, pre my K awakening, is the ability to see auric fields, and of my several friends who practice astrology professionally (and truly are friends), I have to say that their auric fields are pretty muddy. (and also to add that this is no reason to disqualify their friendships, just as anyone else walking around with wounds, etc.) Somehow immersing oneself in that knowledge of the stars is not much of a saving grace, personally, though I guess you could say those with deeps wounds would go into astrology for deeper understanding, thus explaning the darker auric fields around them, they have their own deep stuff to work out. But I don't think astrology, as a science, is much of a heart opener. Its just information that can interpreted in a number of different ways and from what I've seen and heard, most astrologers cling to their own perceptions in their interpretations, either playing cheerleader by glossing over the negative, or clinging to the negative interpretations as a sign of "worst-case" scenerios.
Moreover, the professional astrologer who taught me mostly what I know, who was a neighbor of mine in NYC and renowned for working on the "Son of Sam" case (the serial murderer struck at astrologically favored times for such evil), worked on a project that gave us some interesting insights. She partnered with the Jungian Institute in NYC to basically run computerized life charts for historical figures whose time, date of birth, was accurate and life events documented, to determine life patterns, transit documentation, etc. and couple it with psychological data. It took a couple of years and the results were fascinating. Basically, the life path of a person could be charted almost like a physics equation, using the equivalent of geometic co-sign waves (etc, I can't remember all the mathematical language) that imitated various transits, i.e. if someone were going through a Uranus square Sun transit, which could be incredibly disruptive in terms of life events. Anyway, the resulting graph for each person could then be looked at in terms of how high and low the various trough dips were (in degrees ) and impact on life events. Since the science of astrology is also dependent on the degrees of the planets, and the squares, trines, etc. these form, the chart/graph also could be interpreted in terms of astrology.
The upshot, in most simplistic terms, was that the higher frequency a soul operated at, the less impact the more serious transits had on their lives. I.E. a sun square Uranus could result in an accident, for example, versus, as opposed to something less serious, i.e. a simple car breakdown or less. Accordingly, if the Holy Spirit, in New Agey terms, lifts one's vibe, then we're able to deflect the denser frequencies around, assuming, one big assumption, that the universe is basically mechanistic and predictable in terms of astrological outlook. (Scientists today use astrology to predict sun spot activity, so who knows?)
I, for one, can't ascribe to a fixed outlook for the universe, but the historical research that was part of the study, which included everyone from Jung himself to Marilyn Monroe (the data revealed that it was likely that she was indeed murdured), Jackie O., Teddy Roosevelt, you name it, a number of people whose biographical information was well known, was fascinating.
Anyway, the result of being so close to astrology for me has given me a lot of information but not much in terms of healing, no kidding. I'm glad you're on a devotional path. In my experience, its the only real answer, and in the words of Maria Callas, the rest is all "ka-ka" if our faith is strong.
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This is a very substantive exchange, W.C. and Linda. I'll try to remember where it is on the forum, but am almost tempted to give it its own thread as we've never really addressed the issue of astrology in any depth.
My personal stance regarding the relevance of astrology is much the same as you two are describing, although I don't have any significant training in it at all. Put simply, I view it as a system for accessing metaphysical and archetypal information and consider references to planets, orbits, etc. to be on that level as well. Maybe this could all be considered karmaic forces, in which case we'll find, as expected a different view on how to deal with this coming from the East than we do in Christianity, where Jesus Christ is Lord of all karmaic situations, including those caught up in powers of evil and death. We cease to be victims of personal, familial, social, and cosmic karma when we attach ourselves to him in faith and allow his Spirit to work its tranformative healing in us.
None of which is to say that there's no value in self-knowledge obtained through astrology, MBTI, Enneagram, psychotherapy, and other "systems." I see no problem, either, in employing a practice which the wisdom of the ages has deemed helpful unto healing; i.e., just as I'd take any vitamins recommended by a doctor to improve my biochemistry, so, too, would I practice psychological and metaphysical disciplines to strengthen and heal the more subtle levels of being. The trick is to do so in a greater context of faith and surrender, consecrating even the practice method unto this end (I hear you both saying pretty much the same). Otherwise, it's all too easy to get caught up in "fixing oneself," which is ultimately self-centered and a never-ending process.
[ December 01, 2002, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: Phil ]
-------------------- "The Light shines on in darkness . . ." - John 1: 3 - Posts: 7539 | From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Aug 2001
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