Posted by CeCe Light on September 27, 19100 at 17:45:57:
In Reply to: Re: Sin, Soul, Self, Catholicism posted by Philip St. Romain on September 27, 19100 at 17:43:56:
:: Okay. Define "Saint"
: I thought all Catholics knew this. You can look it up, CeCe. There's no need for me to have to do that, nor to define sin and basic concepts like that.
You as a Christian leader do in fact have that responsibility indeed!
For I truely don't know what constitutes one as being a Saint, or I wouldn't have asked.
And just for future reference, know that just because one holds the title of being Catholic doesn't mean the are informed of all Catholic teachings, and do you care to know why?
Because everytime they ask in earnest a question (of) the (so called) authorities, they are met with the same tone and attitude of defense and indifference as you have so irresponsibly displayed, pawning it off to that very line you offered me in not having "need to do that, nor to define sin and basic concepts like that."
There lies the very reason why many do not know much of their own Catholic teachings. You know not everyone is able to read to find out, and as for me who you can see is capable, why should I have to "look it up, CeCe" when we are supposedly in discussion of such things of which you invited me to participate in.
That's dis-respectful Phil!
: : I don't know, Phil, but I was raised a Roman Catholic myself and taught that God is "EVERYTHING!" "EVERYWHERE!"
: : Does this still stand or has that changed as well?
: What do you mean, "changed as well?"
"I thought all Catholics knew this. You can look it up, Philip. There's no need for me to have to do that, nor to define sin and basic concepts like that."
How does it feel Phil? What feeling did you just have? It's a cut off - a cop out!
: But, the Church never, ever taught that God is everything. It teaches that God is everywhere, but that's not the same idea.
If God is Everywhere, and in "Everywhere" you see things, isn't that Everything? Or is He just in the spaces in which Everything isn't?
What sense does that make?
:The former is Hinduism.
I don't care if its UFO-i-nism! It makes sense, and your view doesn't.
: The rest of your sharing seems informed by a wide variety of sources--Course in Miracles, Hinduism,
How about something you haven't considered, like the Spirit who gives me my information!
:and a few I'm not familiar with that you must have put together on your own.
With the help of the Mother, yes. Are you to tell me I should doubt Her?
: : So in this light, I see no departure from His ways as He is All and Everything, even supposed sin, for if he did not create supposed sin to be had, that would imply an entity in opposition to Him, of a dualistic nature in the universe calling himself Mr. Devil and I don't believe this entity to be anything but that of illusion and darkness as a result of limited consciousness to that of our full potential in being as God-like as Jesus said we were.
: Jesus had a lot to say about Mr. Devil, and he didn't say it was simply a projection of our ignorance. Also, to say that God created sin, or that to believe in sin presupposes a dualistic universe does not follow.
Yes it does.
It implies clearly that there is an entity in opposition to God with equal power. Do you believe that?
:The Christian doctrines of creation, fall, sin, redemption, etc. take all this into account. Of course, if one makes no fundamental distinctions between God and creation, as I see you doing, then one can end up where you are in your understanding.
And where might that be Philip?
: : All are Gods ways as we, through our limited consciousness come to express Him, and the supposed negativity you see here on earth is but the result of this limited consciousness, yet always in and bound by Divine Providence and that alone would make it positive.
: I've never understood this!
Then let me take a shot...
Negative states/feelings are important in that we come to know ouselves better. If not for the negativity in the world, why all the need for improvement?... as we always work toward the better, the bigger, the faster - always making effort to perfect "IT." (whatever it be) so it is through the seeming negative that we come to know the positve for this is what we innately work for/toward.
If not for the recent Firestone Tire Problem, would there ever be room for improvement? No! Because "All would be Well."
But when its not well, this negative energy, if you will, is active, and active due to much room for improvement. Like us.
As the brains behind Firestone had to take in more mind to remedy the cause of "the all not being well" Tire - they in fact increased their consciousness in a manner that served improvement and/or immuntiy to that "all not being well" problem.
And we're no different being spiritual beings.
We touch the stove as babes because we lack the consciousness of the repercussions, and it is only when "All was not well" that we tune into more awareness of now - "what can happen if we touch it again" - memory builds itself upon consciousness and awareness. Yet it was by way of only one thing - when "All was not well" or limited consciousness.
The negative is not at all negative, it is positive, for it produced positive results, and so on and so on, until we perfect it all and "All becomes well" totally, like God where there is no room whatsoever for improvement.
:If we really are God, and we are confused about this and generating all sorts of hatred and negativity, then this means that God is confused about who God is,
Only if you don't see God in His totality as being All Love which He is to me, with me being a part of Him in my efforts to mimic Him the best I know how with the tools I have - mistakenly looked upon as being negative when its not. For it leads to the "all is well" at some point where His perfection and the "no more need for improvement" lies.
Would you fix something that's not broke?
"All is well" then...
It is we that are confused in our expression of Him in our attempt at manifesting Him in TOTALITY here on earth through our limited consciousness.
:God is doing all kinds of things to God, God is negativity, etc. How can God be ignorant of God's self?
He's not - we are!
To suggest this is to say that God is imperfect, or limited in God's own self-understanding.
Agreed.
: : >let's remember that our personal intuitions are not absolute.<
: : ...nor are those "Traditions..."
: : :"Traditions" How easy you blow off the Church and its wisdom! And why the " " for Traditions?! Seems pretty disrespectful!
Dis-respectful only if this is how you choose to view it. I have no dis-respect for any approach to understand Self or God - too sacred an issue for me young man. How 'bout you? I feel I can talk intelligently about such matters having passion only when the answers I receive don't stand up to either my sense of both reason or intuition. I question everything, you know why? Because it was this God who gave me the ability to inquire when what has been fed me doesn't stand the test to just pure common sense. No dis-respect Philip. Not me.
:: for God gave you access to mind for good reason.
I said "GOOD REASON" - meaning for use of good reasoning...
Amen to good reasoning. Let's have more of it.
Now that's a good sign.
: For the record: there are ways to understand the kundalini process and enlightement within the framework of traditional Christianity and Catholicism.
Of course there are - it's called Holy Spirit, and I don't doubt for one moment, even though I am not a scholar here, that all religions provide a basic framework to understand such process. That's what Religion is for - to come to understand some Higher Power that all acknowledge.
:There's absolutely nothing about kundalini or enlightenment that negates the basic doctrines of Christianity about God, creation, sin, grace, redemption, adoption, transformation, etc. As a Christian, my primary interest has been to understand and integrate my experience within the tradition rather than re-interpret it in the light of my experience--as Bernadette Roberts and others have done. That it is possible to do so is not only true for me, but, I think, it's also important for coming to a healthy integration of the transformative process.
And that's great Phil - It's my struggle too.
Good luck to you, as I know you extend to me as well.
: Peace,
Phil
Yes - Peace and Love
CeCe