Posted by Philip St. Romain on September 27, 19100 at 17:41:40:
In Reply to: True Self, False Self, Christianity, etc. posted by Philip St. Romain on September 27, 19100 at 17:06:41:
(picking up a thread between Phil and CeCe, in which Phil is responding to CeCe)
: >:There have been some pretty sick saints!<
: I have no knowledge of saints at all except that they come with names.
They're really worth learning about CeCe. Some of them have become good friends of mine.
: >: even in these very unique, special circumstances?
: : Remember, now, we are transformed. We are no longer the same type of person we had previously been. A butterfly doesn't act like a caterpiller.<
: Oh please, give me a break! Just because "Ye is transformed" doesn't mean we function from Divine consciousness always- as we still have personality to contend with in daily life on earth which acts as a filter. Just makes you fully responsible for your actions.
Amen! Alleluia!
: >: John of the Cross writes:
: : The soul thereby becomes divine, God through participation, insofar as is possible in this life. And thus I think that this state never occurs without the soul's being confirmed in grace, for the faith of both is confirmed when God's faith in the soul is here confirmed."<
: The "Soul" (Dear John,) was never not Divine, how could it be if in fact we came from God which is All Divine.
I understand your point, CeCe, especially given your earlier analogy about the sun and its rays. But that particular view was condemned by the Church for being monistic. In the Catholic Tradition, at least, the Soul is created by God and sustained by God, but it is a creature: not-God. As such, it is capable of departing from God's ways (sin), or of living in God and being transformed so that it participates in the Divine mode of knowing and loving. That's what St. John is talking about, and I agree with his and Catholic teaching on the relationship between God and soul, sin and redemption, grace and transformation, etc.
: ...and He did before as well.
: We all have a personal soul which again, together in its entirety of all of humanity equals the One Soul of God. And in this sense we are responsible as individual souls for our own consciousness.
That's your understanding, CeCe, and I suspect the Hindus as well. But it's not the Catholic view. God's soul is not summed up by humanity, nor even the universe. It is immanent in creation, and transcendent as well, existing in a mode proper to God alone.
: >>: The human soul continues to exist and its perfection will not be completed until it is fully established in heaven.<<
: That's funny, but my communication tells me the human soul is already perfected, it is just our consciousness which lacks this awareness.
Perfect in the sense that what comes from the hand of God is good, CeCe, but definitely distorted by its woundings, conditioning, karma, etc., so that it's will is focused on eneds other than divine union.
: >: Isn't heaven is a state of consciousness that exists here and now? <
: Indeed! So is that thing called hell.
: >: I love you both but I have to respect my own
: : intuitions, too.<
: You go girl!
Yes, let's all go! But let's remember that our personal intuitions are not absolute. I think it important to bump my intuitions and insights up against a Tradition that has already compiled a wisdom about such matters.
: Love CeCe
Peace to all of you. Thanks for your interest and sharing.
Phil
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