Posted by Diana on September 21, 19100 at 18:44:28:
In Reply to: Re: Levels of consciousness posted by jboy on September 21, 19100 at 15:32:30:
: : Yes "sin" is possible, as all things are - but as to "it" being likely to occur inside the "Realization," (the state of knowing in consciousness?)
: There is a book called _Ways In Mystery_ available at White Cloud Press (see link below). I enjoyed it. Y'all may, too. I had long been aware that our Western saints were "tainted" with sinfulness and our hagiographical literature and approach to beatification and canonization processes reinforce this awareness. We are given examples of exceptional and heroic virtue to emulate but not of perfection. This book puts in similar perspective, IMO, the Eastern experience. Whatever the hypothetical arguments and word plays might lead one to believe through logical extrapolations from various premises, the "real life adventures" of the mystics consistently reveal ... well, I gave the *spoiler* above. East or West, classical formative spiritual path language still seems to hold fairly well: purgation, illumination and unification or justification, sanctification and glorification. The Unitive Way is rare enough indeed. Additionally, distinctions between the immanent, impersonal, ontological, existential growths in awareness and transcendent, personal, metaphysical and theological growths in awareness are very real, at least in authentic Roman Catholic mystical theology. Sin is not just possible but probable, so I suppose that entering into whatever this "Realization" consists of must be what is next to impossible (per MY worldview).
: Interesting discussion even if my angle of approach is obtuse perhaps.
: shalom,
: jb
CeCe, jb, Phil, and others,
Since I started this thread, I feel a responsibility to go a little further with it.
Thanks for your feedback. I am struggling with these ideas. I would greatly appreciate any further comments you may have.
Marion quotes B. Roberts as saying, (on the nondual level) "...All that happens is that we finally take our rightful place with Christ in the Trinity as part and parcel of God-God manifest." (p. 205)
My understanding is that when we reach the level of Christ Consciousness or what some call the casual level of consciousness, we finally fully realize that we are the Christs. We have been all along but we were not aware of it. So, how can
we sin? How can we 'miss the mark' if we are, in fact, on the mark? Now, that doesn't mean that moral and ethical codes cease to exist. Of course, they exist and we can still choose to violate them. But that is not sin. Sin or the illusion of separateness from God ceases and therefore, we can't sin?! How could we?
Marion quotes Roberts as saying that on the nondual level, "there is now no difference between God's will and our own will. Our human will is now seen as one with the will of God." (p. 205)
I need to think about this some more. I don't think I'm being clear enough.
This is important to me!
Help! :)
Thanks.
Diana